- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
If there was a rule stating that before movement and after movement order had been established an aircraft can fire a short burst at any target in it’s forward field of fire or could nose up or nose down firing at an enemy above or below. This would as well apply to rear gunners as well. I would think that this would detour those deadly top or bottom shots without consideration of retribution. After short burst is fired then plane then moves. Looking for chatter and thoughts on this. This would open up tailing really quick I think. Please speak your thoughts here. We will use this as a house rule in future. thanks. Bill
with that rule you are allowing a shortburst headon shot at any plane not taking a side shot or tail in a single seater. And if you are flying a two seater you are guaranteed a head on shot at any plane that shoots at you. Not a very chivalrous way to fly.
do not understand. always thought to take headon shot was optional. no one is forcing you take it and even at that, headon do award a return fire. i guess do we want a boy’s game or a man’s game? if someone is taking a side shot or tail shot that headon shot would have been available the previous turn anyway to the observer in a two seater. The die roll for turns will determine who gets what shot at the beginning of a turn. please more talk. thank you salute Bill
hexxer wrote:
Quote:do not understand. always thought to take headon shot was optional. no one is forcing you take it and even at that, headon do award a return fire. i guess do we want a boy’s game or a man’s game? if someone is taking a side shot or tail shot that headon shot would have been available the previous turn anyway to the observer in a two seater. The die roll for turns will determine who gets what shot at the beginning of a turn. please more talk. thank you salute BillHey Bill,
One thing that characterized WWI airbattles is something we still prize today, camaraderie. We prefer to shoot down the machine not the man. Let me give you an example of each. The British attacked a German Aerodrome I believe it was Ritter von Schliegh who jumped into his plane wearing pajamas, he got his plane into the air and scored a kill. The British Lt. he shot down landed safely at the German airfield. von Schliegh landing right behind him to keep the man from being killed by ground troops. While they were talking the Brit explained the mission call had come in while he was playing tennis and opened his coat to reveal tennis clothing. The German laughed shoed he was wearing pajamas and then went and changed into tennis clothing. They played tennis and the Brit was the toast of the Aerodrome that night at dinner before being shipped off to prison. You can attend any society event and will find that when someone is shot down every guy in the room will be rooting for the downed pilot to survive, and this includes the guy that will be credited with the kill.
Your right we do have the head-on option we just prefer not to take it.
Now if you are tailing a two seater and you are below the tail (50 or more) The tail of the targeted blocks return fire.
Ok Chivalry aside giving an attacked plane a head-on shot every turn. That will rack him up an extrodinary amount of kills.
Goodluck~~Jim
It seems to me that the pilot of the two-seater would have to be nose up in the previous turn. If not then this craft would level prior to the roll for movement order. I think the pilot would have to have a legitimate reason for going noseup, a target above. If pilots are allowed to position plane to give observer the shot you are referring to then the short burst may happen. Likewise the pilot of the targeted headon shot mat return fire (because it is headon) as well.
keep em flying salute Bill thanks for commentshexxer wrote:
Quote:or could nose up or nose down firing at an enemy above or below. This would as well apply to rear gunners as well.maybe I misread but it seems by the rule stated that the two seater could go nose up or down so the rear gunner could fire.
Grins and tosses in another monkey wrench~~Jim
1. I guess it would depend on who’s flying the craft and if observers can suggest a nose up or down to the pilot for a shot. or
2. if the pilot has nothing to nose up or nose down to attract his attention then the observer is out the shot. or
3. When pursuing two-seaters more respect is given them and and the realization that the gunners should be dealt with first and from a distance, also another reason why you want to go into a tailing mode not granting that nose up or nose down predicament to come to bear in the first place.
It is important to remember that if targets have to be already present prior to the movement of the firing aircraft as well.
More later I hope Salute And Keep ‘Em Flying
the new old guyhexxer wrote:
Quote:If there was a rule stating that before movement and after movement order had been established an aircraft can fire a short burst at any target in it’s forward field of fire or could nose up or nose down firing at an enemy above or below. This would as well apply to rear gunners as well. I would think that this would detour those deadly top or bottom shots without consideration of retribution. After short burst is fired then plane then moves. Looking for chatter and thoughts on this. This would open up tailing really quick I think. Please speak your thoughts here. We will use this as a house rule in future. thanks. BillThis is essentially saying you get to fire twice per movement phase, which really does not add anything to the game, other than more damage more quickly. If an AC was allowed to take a shot at someone above or below them, they would have to MOVE to do so… which is movement, they cant just arbitrarily decide to be nose up or nose down, fire, then move. I think that is the biggest thing that would not work.
You could experiment with the move/shoot – shoot/move idea though, giving players the option to fire BEFORE they move at a target that is in their field of fire at the beginning of the turn. This would have to be considered a continuation of fire from the previous turn though, and increase jam chances considerably. (add bursts together so even short + short will always be +10%)
If you want to encourage tailing, I would suggest something we tried in an e-mail game last year that worked well. We made H-O attacks the same as side (down a table) and made tail shots non-deflection shots that were always up a table to begin with. This made tail attacks more advantageous than top/bottom/HO.
One thing to remember when talking about rules changes- most people that still play this game have done so for anywhere from 10-40 years. The rules have not changed much in that time, so trying new things is going to be a tough sell.
Not everyone gets to fire twice a turn. It is depending on when you move if that target is still there. Basically it gives those aircraft that get sandwiched some defense if they go first again. If pilots want top or bottoms that’s fine but the consequense is if the plane that was topped or bottomed gets a short burst next turn if it’s number is higher. This by no measure grants anyone 2 shots a turn.
I started playing this game in the late 70’s. One of my first experiences was with Mike Carr, Jim Barber and Mike Huggins and Harry Homan.(This is a very cherished memory.) I enjoyed this game but it seemed unfair to me then and still now that there was no alternative firing worked into the game so that 1) it is more enjoyable, 2) more fair, and 3) MORE DANGEROUS. I don’t see this as more damage quicker, I view this as luck in combat no different than what our pilots experience now. Different strategies will have to be employed and not the whosh I’m taking a top shot., I’m taking a bottom shot with no worry for the risk. I don’t think from what I have read this was the feeling of WWI pilots as they performed their duties. I see you comfort in the rules as they are but this game can be more fun for people like me and more dangerous for our pilots. Perhaps this will cause a change to happen Game evolution is a wonderful thing. More later
Salute Keep ‘EM Flying the new old guyThe sandwich as it has been called seemed very unusual to me since basically from 50 – 100 feet an aircraft is diving or climbing to the enemy with guns blasting and no fear or possibility of collision exists for being so bold but yet the discretionary pilot who takes the head on shot is a chump and from 200′ or less there is a chance of collision but not so with those 50′-100′ tops or bottoms shots.
Of course this can be explained away but then eliminate the head on collision possibility as well.
Oh yes another possibility leaped into my head this morning and that being, if in the prior turn you fired at the end of the turn, then you couldn’t in the next turn until after you moved. Also meaning that if you didn’t fire in the previous turn and was moving unfortunately first in the following turn you would be able to noseup or nosedown or fire at an enemy in your field of fire and then move knowing you wouldn’t be able to fire unless a headon shot was fired in your direction.
Again enough for now Salute Keep ‘Em Flying the new old guyhexxer wrote:
Quote:The sandwich as it has been called seemed very unusual to me since basically from 50 – 100 feet an aircraft is diving or climbing to the enemy with guns blasting and no fear or possibility of collision exists for being so bold but yet the discretionary pilot who takes the head on shot is a chump and from 200′ or less there is a chance of collision but not so with those 50′-100′ tops or bottoms shots.
Of course this can be explained away but then eliminate the head on collision possibility as well.I can’t state this as true in WWI but in WWII pilots were tested for depth perception. This was done because pilots with no depth perception had this annoying tendancy to crash into the plane they were diving on:)
can’t state this as true in WWI but in WWII pilots were tested for depth perception. This was done because pilots with no depth perception had this annoying tendancy to crash into the plane they were diving on
Sorry but as far as game pertinence I am having a tough time focussing on your statement.
Joseki wrote:
Quote:hexxer wrote:Quote:The sandwich as it has been called seemed very unusual to me since basically from 50 – 100 feet an aircraft is diving or climbing to the enemy with guns blasting and no fear or possibility of collision exists for being so bold but yet the discretionary pilot who takes the head on shot is a chump and from 200′ or less there is a chance of collision but not so with those 50′-100′ tops or bottoms shots.
Of course this can be explained away but then eliminate the head on collision possibility as well.The pertinance is that you are assuming that if a plane is attacked top or bottom that the pilot is to stupid or does not have sufficiant visual accuity to pull up thus avoiding a collision. That was my original point.
Now I will add in extra points. You should investigate the Indy site. They have a post there on the death of freeze frame gaming. Which is what I think your sugggesting.
Point 2. I know your not in favor of sandwiching because it my continue for extended turns. I know this may not be your prefered method but you could simply outfly the guys sandwiching you. You know if you have a higher turn speed or higher straight speed, better climb or better dive. Use it. If not there is always overdive, or and I know this is radical WINGMATE SUPPORT is always an option.
Just a thought.
Well apparently I must be missing the boat judging from what I may or may not be reading between the lines. However as of yet freeze frame gaming I will investigate. What if the mercy of the dice always put you first and the sandwich continues? What if your pilot is an ace and still rolls rotten? Where are these things ironed out in a “game” that seems so unchangeable in parts because “that’s just the way it is” and can’t gravitate toward something that will even the playing field? It seems some are very touchy about strategy and tactics when you the better of the craft are given you otherwise the sandwich is fair because pilots aren’t stupid which I never stated they were. Mechanics require Headon shots at 200′ or less to pick a maneuver card and compare with the other non stupid pilot 200′ or less away but the top or bottom shot at 50′ to 100′ requires nothing in the mechanics. I am saying nothing of pilot intelligence here. I am try to see why at 200′ and not at 50′-100′ are manuevers not chosen.
Keep ‘Em Flying the new old guy Bill:unsure:
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.