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We had a situation come up online last night that we weren’t sure how to handle. It pertains to observers with experience and the quickstart roll.
The original quickstart rules allowed a side to count a modifier for each ace/experienced “pilot”. But in a recent re-release of the quickstart rule that was changed from “pilots” to “fliers”. Do experienced observers count as a modifier in the quickstart roll?
Thanks,
GrahamYes, absolutely. Each observer is “another set of eyes” to be on the lookout for enemy planes, no matter if they’re above, below or behind — and ace or experienced observers definitely are considered as “modifiers”
fambans wrote:Is the only change the term flier is substituted for pilot?Yes. The rule stayed exactly the same but the language was changed to obfuscate the rules lawyers.
Well now I am confused for sure, Al says the rule hasn’t changed. Before it was pilots, not observers. Now we have the ambiguous term fliers. Everyone else here says it’s observers and pilots, which is different.
I think Al means that the intent of the rule was always that observers should count, but the original word “pilots” didn’t capture that, so it was changed to “fliers”. Intent the same, wording now more closely matches intent. I personally think “fliers” very clearly includes observers.
Graham
To say that the original intent was pilots and observers when just pilots was written demands explanation. I need to hear from Al directly before my mind will be at ease.
Ok, but I’m not sure why your mind isn’t at ease about the current rules. Both Mike and Al said that observers count for modifiers and “fliers” seems perfectly clear.
I merely want to know why the old rule said pilots when it actually meant, and has ALWAYS meant, pilots and observers. I think only Al can answer that. Mike isn’t going to answer here.
I also have to wonder what other rules don’t really mean what they appear to say.
Ok. I will point out that Mike did answer on this thread once already. Also, this rule was originally drafted by Kerry Nash, I believe.
At least we know what it means now! There’s always the potential for different interpretations and lack of clarity in any rules – even (especially?) the US Constitution. I’m happy to chalk “pilot” vs “flier” up to lack of clarity.
Graham
fambans wrote:I merely want to know why the old rule said pilots when it actually meant, and has ALWAYS meant, pilots and observers. I think only Al can answer that. Mike isn’t going to answer here.I also have to wonder what other rules don’t really mean what they appear to say.
There are several spots in the rules which use “pilot” as a shorthand for crewmember or flier, mostly because before the advent of the master scenario chart 90+% of the games were single seat fighters vs single seat fighters.
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